AGZ-X - The Thomas R Dickens Interview

An interview by Ken Hulsey

KH - How did the idea for Alien Grey Zone-X come about?

TRD - About a year and a half before “AGZ-X” was conceived, I wrote a script for a feature film which I still hope to shoot one day, called: “Vortex”. I teamed up with an associate David John Burke to help me shoot a short test/trailer for this, hoping this would drum up interest and further experience towards shooting it as a feature.

All in all it went pretty well. David gathered up all the supporting actors, from “Aztec Indian” types, to regular kids, all for the short. I flew out from Los Angeles, and we shot it in Las Vegas in one day (we were originally supposed to have 2 days). David played the Lead. He has a great presence and look for a lead. Supporting him was Travon L. Collins, and also in the cast were Chris Harper and Jessica Walker, as well as about another 6-8 actors.

Later, in post, I did the effects for the short, and it turned out pretty well. Unfortunately we were not organized enough (often what can happen on a “no budget” project) and did not have our legal work together or release forms for all of the crew, so the short film effort all ended up unusable commercially. I didn’t want to even release it on the web, as I did with my other short film sequences, such as “Dark Ones” and “From Below”, both of which are on you tube. I tried to get releases signed after the fact, but couldn’t even reach the actors. I didn’t want to take any chances with legal issues upon releasing it. I am only able to show it to select few professionals in private.

Anyway, this was a great test of what to do and not to do for a feature. It also showed me how much fun it could be to shoot with actors and be a director, though I had done this before, it did refresh the feeling in me and start a lot of momentum going that I really wanted to shoot a feature. It also allowed me to create relationships, which would all pay off in that some of the actors I mention above eventually ended up selected to star in “Alien Grey: Zone-X”.

It was due to their talent/good nature, and also a kind of loyalty I felt to them since they worked so hard on the “Vortex” short and wanted to work again with me. The feeling was mutual.

Ultimately, I put “Vortex”, the Feature, on the shelf, as I thought it would take more money that I knew how to get hold of, in order to Produce. I had to think of an idea for something that could be Produced even cheaper, yet still have a high quality level to it.

But how would I do it? How would I get the funding and the process together to shoot an effects driven feature? This became the next hurtle to overcome. After “Vortex” short was done, and a year before “Alien Grey: Zone-X” script was conceived, a friend of mine, Leif Einarsson, and I talked about making a movie together. We had worked together before at Sony Pictures Imageworks on “Stuart Little” and “Hollowman”, and then again on “Scooby Doo” at Warner Brothers Feature Animation. I also helped him, by modeling and Visual Effects Supervising his “Happy Dough-Boy” character for his sarcastic comedy pseudo commercial, which he Directed. The only thing I didn’t understand was working on a project which, due to copyright issues that would be sure to come up, had no chance of commercial success of any kind. I wanted to do a project which had some hope of success.

I've wanted to make a movie since I was a kid, and made 4 short films, and many tests, but usually was working on "other people's" films, doing effects for them. We were trying to come up with ideas. I am definitely, an "idea" person. It is amazing how movie or story or product ideas just seem to "pop" into my head (if I only had the budgets to make them all into real projects - we'd all be rich!). I was thinking of an idea that surrounded a "Close Encounters" type feeling of how the aliens just "happen" to people that least expect or asked for it, also in "Communion" which I read the book and saw the film. “Communion” was very frightening to read. It intrudes on their life, they don't seek it.

Something somewhat similar actually happened to me over 20 years ago when I was laying to try to go to sleep and had a very vivid "out of body experience" that just "happened" to me. I still don't know what it was: lack of sleep, dreaming while awake, hallucination, Alien abduction, God "taking me away" or WHAT it was, but I didn't ask for it, and it happened to me and was very real.

I also have read stories, and seen documentaries of “sleep apnea”, which is when people have experienced Grey Aliens, or Demons, etc. when trying to go to sleep. This is an interesting phenomena to me.I also love the desert, and went to Death Valley about 10 years ago. I left the engine running on my Trans Am when my fiancée (now wife), Beata, and I went out on the flats. It was SO HOT that I can not describe it. Like having hair dryers aimed at every inch of your body on full blast. I couldn't help but wonder what would have happened if the car stalled. I honestly don't think that we would have last 1/2 an hour out there, and there was NOONE around there to help if that happened. Very scary, but also thrilling. Being there was living on the edge…

I've also gone to Joshua Tree National Park, Red Rocks Canyon, Devil's Punchbowl, and Vasquez Rocks many times and really enjoy the surreal feel, the (usually) "Positive Energy Vortex" there and the solitude and silence. Of course “Star Trek” and many other shows used some of those locations, as did "Army of Darkness" and "Them" and many films I've enjoyed. I wanted to do something in the desert. Originally at Joshua Tree National Park was the idea.I came up with the idea for a story originally called "Desert Horror", then "UFO Encounter" (maybe these similar films will be made one day) that involved some young affluent people who stop at a gas station and meet up with some young rough guys on their way to a Las Vegas bachelor/bachellorette party. They HAD to get there on time, but couldn't, due to an accident on the freeway, and too much traffic. Therefore, they decide to follow the young strangers into the desert through a "shortcut", on dirt road. Suddenly, in intervals, the power starts going out, stranding the groups together in the desert. Total strangers had to rely on each other to survive. They each wonder if the other is behind the oddities. None of them are prepared for the journey. They find out they are in an "experiment" by aliens, who are in control of them. There was one scene planned to have a fist fight between one of the guys and a Grey Alien. Despite the Grey's spindly appearance it would be a brutal fight, until the guy gets the upper hand and takes the Grey out. The greys would make people believe they were seeing things, etc. which would cause them to react in ways that the aliens could "test". In the end the girl, who had started to fall for the main "roughian" realizes she should stick with what's good, her relationship waiting for her to marry... They also get to the water.Leif and I could not agree on this idea. When going over the idea it got converted to a pseudo government underground base movie, which was also an OK plot, but not what I wanted to go towards. Also, due to lack of financing, interested in the project, especially by my friend, was waning… He didn’t want to get involved with something impossible to do…

Eventually, I got more influence from some shows such as: “Robinson Crusoe on Mars”, “Cast Away”, “Survivor Man”, and “I Shouldn't Be Alive", which were very riveting to me. The struggle of people to survive in harsh environment. I particularly liked the real life stories, as the documentary style seemed to heighten the concern and realism to what was being depicted...

It was then that all the pieces came together, I was working as a Visual Effects Supervisor, and CGI Supervisor for “Lair” for Sony Computer Entertainment of America, commuting to San Diego to do so... At nights, I began writing "Alien Grey: Zone-X". The story was just popping into my head, being “channeled”. I am blessed with this gift of story writing coming with relative ease.

I knew I wanted the story to involve a power outage (similar to "Desert Horror") and several groups brought together by it. It was to be a "survivor" story in that took place, where the groups would have to undergo tremendous odds to simply survive and get water... Then also, the element of the "madman" stalking the group, again from "Desert Horror", and the Alien Greys came from me wanting to use real aliens in the film, rather than some sci-fi creations. However, in “AGZ-X” the aliens are able to make anything appear at any time. They have almost "god-like" powers. As a race, they are at a technological peak. This challenges what is "real" or not in the story, and asks the viewer to question this in his or her life as well. Finally, since the group must pass into "Zone-X" (a Secret Military Testing Zone similar to "Area 51") to get to the water there is the question that all that is happening to the group is actually a mind control test they are involved in. This questioning of everything is what I was after establishing. I wish for the audience to question and never follow anything that they accept without thinking first.

I also knew the time was right to shoot this. I began regular talks with David John Burke about starring in the picture as the leading man. He has many spiritual beliefs, and is opened minded. He also had the look for the part, and was athletic and fully capable of the role. He agreed to taking the role, and to helping with Production, being a Co-Executive Producer of Principle Photography, with me. Talking with David at night after work got us both inspired to do this picture.

So, the ideas accumulated from all the inspiration, and culminated into being.

KH - What was your biggest challenge in making Alien Grey Zone-X?

TRD - Financial. Money can be almost everything when making films. It can get you more time, pay people better, better locations, better props, higher ranked stars (I love our cast, but stars can help sell the film better), etc. But all that aside it could be most beneficial in just making these kinds of films. Effects rich films take a lot to do those effects. Without enough money it is very hard to achieve, because it takes too long to do them without a large crew and powerful computers to work/render on. For quite a while now it has been me working alone, or with the help of a few others, to get this done. That is not good enough. The goal of the production company is to turn out a film per year minimum. That is achievable but needs the budget so a crew can be hired to expedite things.

It is my hope to have investors come along and help me to final the post on “AGZ-X” and fund the sequels, as well as other films. I am working on this all the time, but it is a constant challenge. If they would they would get richer quicker, as the films I am making are definitely commercially viable, and stand a strong chance of success and spin-offs.The other challenge is the unscrupulous nature of this business. Who it attracts. I am a straight shooter. I am a professional who knows a bit about business and the reality of the world, but making movies can also be so much fun. It is really an amazing thing, but the business side of it is really not so great. I am an honest person, and out to make creative projects and make a fair profit off of them. I am willing to share the profits with others, if I have the budget to do so. However, at times it seems like the majority of players in the motion picture industry trustworthiness and integrity is in serious question. At times I think it can attract the worst people who make decisions. They have the power, and they use it, or abuse it...

It is not just in this industry, but one would hope for more fair and honest business relationships, with all involved working with each other for a common goal of high quality projects, and financial gain, however, I have found you really must watch your back or you will sign a contract that will take the film and leave you with nothing. We've all heard the stories of Lucas when he was first starting “Star Wars”, and studios shooting it down, as well as “Star Trek”, or “George Michael”'s music contract, etc. etc... Perhaps one day this will change...As far as the shoot it was a bit of a challenge dealing with the elements. This film is very rugged and takes place in the desert. We all had to hike, sometimes for miles to get to locations just to shoot, and one sequence, where the group finds themselves on top of a 500 foot cliff was real! All the actors, and myself shooting, were actually inches away from a 500 foot drop, filming from the edge.

We had insurance on the project, but, somehow that wasn't so comforting! But seriously, everyone was an amazing trooper about things and was very positive. Everyone did all they could and put up with a lot to make this film. I hope it shows on the picture, but it is difficult for any medium to show the true locations we were shooting in. At the entrance to Red Rocks, in NV, where we shot most of “AGZ-X”, there is a warning of how many have lost their lives climbing on the rocks. On a good note, it was also a great chance to get exercise, etc. We faced it without hesitation, but did what we could to keep safe.

One funny story is that the movie is supposed to be about survivors in an extreme heat wave. One day of shooting it began snowing! It was snowing in the desert! We decided to shoot anyway, but later re-shot the scenes in normal weather. Both shots will have to be seen on a "special" DVD or such, as, for pacing the shots were cut from the film anyway, but the snowy shots were actually pretty amazing to shoot. The crew was so cold out there, and that included me!

KH - With this film you kinda threw in a lot of different elements, dinosaurs, aliens, paranormal activity. How hard was it to combine all these things into one story?

TRD - I’ve thought many times that “AGZ-X” could have successfully been produced as several different pictures:

A group breaks down in the desert, and must hike through it on their search for
water in the blasting heat.
A group breaks down in the desert and is stalked by a “Madman”
A group breaks down near a Military testing area and finds themselves in the middle of a mind control test.
A group breaks down in the desert and is experimented on by Grey Aliens
A group breaks down in the desert and is confronted by assailing creatures.
A group breaks down in the desert and is helped by a Park Ranger with Paranormal abilities.

Any one of these ideas probably would have been great on its own. “AGZ-X” has all that and more! It has everything, and the kitchen sink in it.

This was intended to give a lot of thrills. The film has a lot of influence, also, from 1950s monster movies, where it would say, “SEE – The giant dragon creature assail its victims”. “Witness – a UFO Invasion”, etc.

However, I want it understood that this is not just a bunch of ideas all thrown together. They do all have purpose in the story. The group breaks down, they are stalked by a “Madman” on their way to find water. They cross into a Military Test Zone, they are experimented on by Grey Aliens, who test the group, pitting them against “created” creature apparitions. Park Ranger Don Morgan must summon his Paranormal Abilities to defeat his enemies, and save the group, all while learning no to give in to the madness around him/them.

Ha ha. That sums it up doesn’t it? I think that “Star Wars” also has a lot of different elements, aliens, creatures, spaceships, paranormal activity in it. I think “AGZ-X” is similar to "Star Wars."

KH - Tell us a little about the cast and what they brought to the production?

TRD - What a great cast. When I shot, I really felt like it was a "perfect" moment at times. Like "Gilligan’s Island" where the cast was impeccable and none could be replaced, I felt the same here. Everyone had their part and was just right for it.

David John Burke, who played Park Ranger Don Morgan, was great for the part. He has an Australian accent, and is a Vegan Raw foodist and body builder/model. I thought he had a look like a real hero from the past, which is what I wanted. He reminded me of Robert Redford, Paul Newman, etc. He also is a very spiritual person, and many of his beliefs and knowledge on the subject were directly applicable to the part. He was also very physically fit and knows martial arts so played the action scenes great.

Holly Poplawski, who came in from Los Angeles for the shoot at Red Rocks, was great. I found her to be one of the most dedicated of the crew. She was willing to do as many takes as need be, without any “attitude” at all. A real pleasure to work with, and was great for the part of the Leading Lady. She is also beautiful and a very capable actress. I can’t say enough good about her.

Then there was the other Los Angeles actor, Wallace Dorian. I am sad to say, that just recently, he passed away. The film is dedicated to him. He played the Pilot. He was witty and crass, and was well liked by the crew. We formed a bond even after the Principle Photography was finished. We became friends. I miss Wallace. I wish he could have seen the film released. Again, a professional, and a real personality to deal with on the set.

Chris Harper as Tray Stevens (friend of the Pilot) was from Vegas, but moved to Los Angeles. He was very eager and professional, and did a great job. He has become a friend as well.

Teresa Giammusso, who played Jill was fantastic, as was Jason P. Edwards, who played “Bud”, and did the Special Effects makeup for the film as well. Jessica Walker, who played Bethsaida was perfect for the part. She did her hair and makeup with something looking a bit like Avril Lavigne for the film. She played a bit of a “tough girl”. Then there was Travon L. Collins as Richard. Richard is the brainiest of the group and Travon did wonderfully at this. Richard is trying to find “petroglyphs” in the desert. He is a hero at the end, when confronted with a giant scorpion-like creature. Then, no one will be able to forget, James J. Zito III. I think the audiences will love him. He is as over the top as Bruce Campbell, or Jim Carey. He is a non-stop personality, who played a multiple personalities “Madman”. He also knows karate so was perfect for the part and the fighting. He also did all his own stunts, as did everyone. The crew did amazing stunts, fights, etc. all on locations with no safety nets! Great to work with, fun to work with. I would work with all of the crew again in a heartbeat. They all offered a great professionalism and acting to the film.

I’d also like to mention the fight scene between Don Morgan and the “Madman” which we were blessed with having Lallee Hughtez, the World Kickboxing Champion from Hungary, and Shi Xing Wei, the FIVE Time Wu Shu Champion, from China as our Stunt Choreographers. So, look out for the fight scene. It is not only a great fight scene on film, but “proper” in its technique.

Also, Doug Harvey was a trooper. He was the onsite photographer and went wherever we did and took great photos of all the days of shooting we did.

KH - I have talked with several independent film makers over the years and they all seem to echo the same statements about how hard it is to get an "original" movie idea produced these days. Is it true that if you are going to get a movie made that isn't based on an existing property, like a TV show or comic book, which you pretty much have to make it yourself?

TRD - It was not that difficult for me, as I Produced this myself (with David John Burke). I had to answer to no one. I think that was one of the best things of making this movie is not having to answer to anyone. But I am sure that you are right. If I would have pitched “AGZ-X” to another studio I am almost positive they would want to shoot it down, or change it. Actually, early on, when I was drumming up money, I did pitch the idea to a studio, and they just wanted to buy the script and make it themselves, their way. I wasn’t interested in that. I wanted to make it myself, my way. I would just say to all the independent film makers out there to take the reigns in your hands and do it yourself. But then you are up against financial burden. I don’t know what the answer is. I think Independent film makers should join together and ask for part of the country’s stimulus dollars. They got one Trillion to give to the banks. How about a couple hundred K for film makers, who create jobs, and help the economy, etc?

KH - How hard is it to market a film like Alien Grey: Zone-X without the big "Hollywood Machine" to back you up?

TRD - I’m not at that stage yet. I did pitch the film to several distributors and because the film is “different” I am not sure. It may be a challenge. I’m just not there yet, and not really facing it. I know I should, but this film is being taken one step at a time. I may end up distributing it myself if need be. If I don’t get a great distribution deal that this film and I disserve, I won’t accept that. I’ll do it myself, win or loose. I am pretty sure the film is going to do great. When people see this, I think it is going to be a hit. It has EVERYTHING to get any audience’s attention. After it makes all that money, THEN everyone will learn their lessen, and come out of the woodwork, ready to help. But until then, everything, unfortunately, must be a struggle. It would be great if the film had the Hollywood machine behind it, just so there would be the money to get it done right and expediently, and to get it out to the public as “large” as it could be. We’ll see when I get there. One thing at a time…


KH - You have worked on the visual effects for so many films, including Harry Potter, Spider-Man, Star Gate and Army of Darkness. What stands out in your mind as your best work?

TRD - Stuart Little was a landmark for me, as well as “Addams Family Values”, “Hollowman”, “Scooby Doo”, also “Pulse”, and of course, “AGZ-X”!!! I think the Demons and Scrappy Rex from “Scooby Doo” was some of my best work. It was also overlooked a bit by the business. Those creatures really were amazing in that film. I also loved working on “A Beautiful Mind”, “We Were Soldiers”, “What Lies Beneath”, “Cast Away”.

Another feather in my cap that brings joy to me is having been “Visual Effects Supervisor” for “Lair”. That was great, having 75 people work under me on high quality all CGI product. It is a great business to be part of…

KH - There has been a lot of debate between movie fans concerning CGI vs. stop-motion animation in regards to special effects. How does CGI open more doors for independent productions vs. the old way of doing effects?

TRD - When I was growing up my biggest influences were Willis O’ Brien and Ray Harryhausen, as well as Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, Night Gallery, Star Trek, etc. I LOVE stop motion film effects. I was doing “claymation” as a child and taught it in a kid’s museum, called the “Discovery Center”. I pursued Stop Motion and “Real World” effects when I moved to Los Angeles in 1989. The first film jobs I got were stop motion, rod puppets, walk around suits, matte paintings, etc. I thought I would be doing “Real World” effects the rest of my life, and I loved it. I used to rent out the late “David Allen’s” Studio to work from. I worked on “Dinosaur Valley Girls” there as Visual Effects Supervisor/Producer there. It was great to meet David and talk with him and get advice and go over old stories. I also became friends with the stop motion crowd, and I did some “apprentice” work for Jim Danforth, who also was a huge hero of mine, growing up.

In 1996 I started at Sony Pictures Imageworks on CGI on “Anaconda”. It was really cool I though. I love both. I love “Real World” and CGI Effects. At times I miss RW Effects, but I do so much CGI now that it has been a while.

I think that CGI is great. It allows for so much amazing work. It is amazing though how when I was doing the RW effects it seems like there was a select few who knew the craft. Now there are thousands of GREAT Effects people out there. It is a bit daunting, especially on low budget to compete. I think it is crucial to have acceptable quality effects. There is nothing worse than bad CGI. I am sure some will slam the CGI in “AGZ-X” because it does not compare to ILM, but, like Ray Harryhausen, I have done this almost entirely alone, so that has been pretty cool to be able to do so many things in CGI now. I used to know everything about RW Effects. Then I had to learn CGI. It is great to know it and do more.

I think they both have their place. I would love to see Stop Motion used as effects these days and job just as a “style” like “Nightmare Before Christmas”, though that is great too.

There is one thing that I don’t think CGI does well. For some reason it is never as scary or real as RW Effects. “Jaws”, “Alien” and “Predator” and “Halloween” and “Nightmare on Elm Street” and “the Thing”, etc. were scary, and the looked real. If those films used CGI I just don’t think they would make the audience cringe and jump. It is something to think about before filming.

KH - I've just got to ask this. What was it like working for Sam Ramie on Army of Darkness?

TRD - That was great. I worked with a friend of mine, Terry Huud (who is doing the score for “AGZ-X”!) way back then. It is just so, that Terry hired me on my first job in Los Angeles, over at Landmark Entertainment. Anyway, it was pretty funny; it began with me given the task of painting many plastic suits of armor to look like real metal armor with distressing. I was to work with someone I never met, I think her name was Melanie (forgive me, it was a while ago). I was told where to go. I went and found a huge gravel pit in the middle of nowhere, with a bunch of white plastic armor suits and the silver spray paint cans, and 5 gallons of water and raw umber and black paint for staining. So we proceeded in "mass production" style to get the job done. That was cool working there and not knowing what it was for, but kind of weird to be there, we were sitting ducks down in that gravel pit!

So, I got called to come back for more prop painting. We went to Aqua Dolce area where so many sci-fis, including “Star Trek”, etc. were shot. It was amazing for me to see what I had seen in films past in real life. I swear that the huge boulder from Kirk's battle with the Gorn was there! I swear I recognized it just abandoned there, and deteriorating, but still very recognizable. I've been there since and didn't see the boulder again...

Anyway, I was setting up and getting my paints, brushes, etc. ready. Terry Huud was there, and several other guys. I was there early morning. Crews started showing up. We had the plastic shields, spears, etc. laid out for painting. Next, I got a tap on my shoulder. I turned around and there was Sam Raimi. I was so naive I only half knew who he was. I must admit I still suffer from this. Since I am such a workaholic in the business at times I don't even know what movie I am working on or for what director. But I did no Sam from “Evil Dead II” which I saw in theaters as a kid and was a huge influence. I never saw his face before though, and didn't expect to meet him. He said, "Hello. I'm Sam Raimi, the Director". I said, "Hi, I'm Thomas Dickens, the Painter”. I was blown away how he took the time out to meet everyone, even the "small" people on his crew. It was much appreciated. I love working with humble down to earth people.

I proceeded to paint the props to look like metal and wood, then standby to touch up. It was an awesome site to see Bruce Campbell riding out on a horse with some scratches (makeup) etc. Very cool stuff. It reminded me of the greatness of Evil Dead II and I looked forward to Army's release. I also remember going to the craft services and must admit I've never had better craft services. Not the usual pizza, hot dogs, or nothing... We had full meals that were incredible. I remember salad, chicken, lobster, etc. It was great. And eating amongst guys dressed in armor I painted, and Bruce and Sam, was great.

Later, on the release of the film, I got some headshots etc. signed by Sam and Bruce. I could tell they recognized me when I was getting it signed. Again, it was great, their humbleness and appreciating everyone on the crew.

KH - What's next? Do you have another project on deck after "Alien Grey: Zone-X"?

TRD - I have one project that I am working on getting funding for, which is a horror movie involving something similar to "sleep apnea", or "night terrors" type effects, which become real. Also, one day I hope to make my short film, which I all ready have a script on, called "From Below" into a film. And of course, sequels of “Alien Grey: Zone-X”. I have these ideas worked out in my head but no script yet...

Thank you Sincerely, Ken, for your interest, and I hope your readers enjoy this. Keep it up!

Thomas Randall Dickens